The party’s membership is down, and studies show it losing badly in elections scheduled for next year. But this week, a soft-spoken mayor and former general announced he wanted to run for the party’s top job so he could restore Labor’s dovish credentials and make peace despite the odds. Haifa’s Amram Mitzna, 57, advocates dismantling many settlements and reviving peace talks unconditionally. And he’s the front runner in Labor’s primary, set for November. NEWSWEEK’s Dan Ephron spoke to Miztna at his home in Haifa this week.
NEWSWEEK: Why are you running?
Amram Mitzna: I think the current government led by Sharon is leading us nowhere. I don’t think you need to be very informed in Israel to see this. Any criteria you check regarding the status of the nation, you’ll see we’re going down. I’m speaking of security, of the economy and the state of mind of people-their fear of the security issues. Using more and more force will lead us to nothing. You cannot suppress terrorism completely just by using military power. You must take a political initiative.
In that case this criticism is directed at your own party as well, since Labor is a partner in this government.
I called on the party from the beginning not to enter this unity government. The first thing I will do once I win the elections is to lead the party out of the government.
In other words, if you win the primary election this November, the Labor party will be out of the government?
Yes.
You’re talking about placing more emphasis on talks with the Palestinians but also building a fence between Israeli and Palestinian territory. What’s different about your program?
I’m calling for a resumption of negotiations with no preconditions and without imposing on the other side which negotiators should be sitting with us at the bargaining table. The only demand that I will have is that the leadership talking to us be able to deliver the goods … The day after I’m elected as prime minister, I will call for a resumption of negotiations with no preconditions. If it fails, I’ll go to a unilateral approach.
Will you negotiate with Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat?
I don’t want to give a clear answer to this question. In most cases, I give very clear answers. But I think that the matter of Arafat and the way we all made Arafat an issue is pulling us off track.
I’m asking if you think he’s engageable.
If we base everything on one person, nothing will come out of it … I know after just two weeks that there is a lot of interest in the Palestinian Authority and in the Arab world in what I’m saying. They’re watching very carefully what I say … I hope that the emergence of a new alternative will help rebuild confidence with the other side.
What if the peace negotiations fail, like they have in the past?
Then we will build a border. But what I’m saying is that east of this border the settlements will have to be dismantled. Because militarily, you cannot fully protect the borders and every settlement, their roads and everything else.
How many settlements would you dismantle?
I won’t give you a direct answer … but it is not just a few settlements. It is more than a few, that’s for sure. In Gaza for example, I would evacuate all the settlements and relocate the defense line along the current fence. We’re talking about an area with 31/2 million Palestinians … The settlements are the core issue of the problem with the Palestinians. This is one of the most difficult issues, and I think it will determine whether or not an agreement is possible with the other side.
But many of the settlements were built when your own Labor party was in power.
Labor built settlements in specific areas. But it was Sharon’s idea in the late ’70s to build settlements everywhere to make sure the government will never be able to evacuate them … I was aware then that it was wrong and would lead nowhere. Most of the leaders didn’t have the strength to tell the truth.
You and Sharon have a history of disagreements. During the war in Lebanon, when you were a senior army officer, you wrote a letter complaining about Sharon’s behavior as minister of defense.
I wrote to the army chief saying that I lost confidence in the defense minister and I wanted to resign from the service. At the end I stayed because Prime Minister Menachem Begin asked me to withdraw my letter … I think the letter generated enough noise that it led to a commission of inquiry [into the Israeli Army’s failure to prevent the massacre of Palestinian refugees by Christian militiamen at the Sabra and Shatilla camps]. At the end Sharon had to leave his position.
Has Sharon changed since then?
He’s now very careful with his decision-making … He’s changed but not enough.
How do you explain that you’ve done so well in the polls since announcing your candidacy?
I’m considered an outsider, not involved in national politics. That might be an advantage given the way people here feel about politicians.
